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July 29, 2010, 04:50:40 pm |
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Topic: Max_Rep, about calf training. (Read 19856 times)
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mtwain
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I wrote this long post on the Mentzer thread about how I was able to transform my calves after twenty years of fruitless training using every conceivable combination with various calf machines using just the one-legged calf raise that Jones said was perfect enough and why he never developed a calf machine.
Anyway, like all Mentzer/HIT threads it got locked as things grew inevitably ugly.
Anyway, I didn't want the post to go to waste because it took me so long to write and might give some practical credibility to Jones' and HIT by an ordinary guy who had 13 7/8 inch calves until his mid thirties. I can email you a pic because I can't attach it here. I just got my first digital camera last week and have been photographing everything. I have a pic of my calves on my dsktop but it won't attach here. I think it exceeds the limit. The pic is of normal size but uses 1MB of space whereas the limit here is only 110KB.
Anyway here's the post that didn't make the locked thread deadline:
Okay dude I'll try them. Do you hold the dumbell in the same hand as the leg you're training or the opposite hand?
Actually, to this day I can't do one strict rep with just my meager bodyweight of 195-200lbs so dumbells have never been necessary. I would do them at home with this huge dictionary that's about 8 inches thick. I put it between a doorway and use the frame edges to both balance and pull myself up for force reps and then push myself down (like doing an over head press) for negatives. I could write a book on all the variations but you really got to make them hurt. I'd just do one or two sets for each leg but each set would take almost five minutes. A typical set would start out with just the typical full range movement. All the way down but do a prestretch (as you slowly lower, just controlled not any of this super slow stuff, just before the full stretch you kind of do a bounce before coming back up. This is similar to throwing you hips out first before following with your arms when throwing a baseball. It's suppose to activate more fibers.) Then you do the whole force reps thing before you have to start pulling up your whole body but then push down against the top of the door frame for the negatives. When you can't control the downward portion of the movement you get to rest. Which means you do burns at the end. Just keep bouncing up and down at the bottom trying not to cry while psyching yourself up for the next rep. It's kind of rest pause except the rest part is the burns. So I would do positive failure, forced reps, negatives (pushing against the door frame) then maybe ten burns before I explode back up which requires an assisted forced rep and then pushing back down for a negative and then repeat. I'd try to get about 10 of these burn/rest pause reps. Sometimes I couldn't do any more burns but would just stay in that stretched position wimpering like a girly-girl (not even a girl-man) before exploding back up. I was in the privacy of my own home so I didn't have to worry about how insane I looked. And I was free to say, "F**k, f**k, f**k, as I was in the stretching portion. And it's not just about doing forced reps, negatives, burns... you really have to make a concerted volitional effort. To take my mind off the pain of the burns I would use it to psyche myself up so I could explode for the rest pause reps. I looked at it as sort of when you hyper ventilate before extreme exertion. My hyper ventilation would be the burns. Burn, burn, burn, up and down, up and down, and then BOOM! explode to the top like your life depended on it. Forget about form at this point. Your muscles are too weak and exhausted to exceed tensile strength.
The thing is that the whole reason I started doing this was because I just gave up on calves. I wasn't going to waste my time at the gym doing them. I would just do a couple of one-legged sets at home just to keep tone and conditioning. It's only when I started to notice some change that it inspired me to take it more seriously. I first noticed veins before I started to measure them and found that they grew.
Don't be afraid to use your other feet for balance and to help you push up for forced reps and steady yourself for negatives. Eighty per cent of the time I 'd do just one set each because it just took so much out of me and since I didn't think I could duplicate that level of intensity for the next set I figure why bother.
Right now I just piddle with the seated calf machine at the gym and do one leg raises on the stairs leading to the stretching room at the 24HR on Crenshaw/PCH. I just do 15 reps for each leg and leave it at that. I don't train my calves with that intensity anymore because I don't want them to grow anymore because they're a bit out of porportion and people comment of them regularly. I can't tell you how odd it is to say that especially since I use to be so self-conscious of how skinny they were before. I measure them at 13 7/8 inches.
Now if I can only figure out a practical way to work with that type of intensity for the rest of my body.
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mtwain
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What do your calves measure now? How long did it take to get them there?
Once I figure out how to attach a pic I'll post it. BlueVan helped me to get it down to 110KB and it's sitting on my dsktp but when I hit the browse button on the reply menu and attach it I don't see it come out when I do a preview.
Looks are very deceiving. Before I snapped the pic last night I measure both calves. My right calf measure just a tad over 16 1/2 inches and my left clocked in at just below 16 1/2 inches. But the reason I think people comment on them is because my ankles are so skinny. My right ankle, measured just above the ankle bone that sticks out, is 8 1/2 inches and my left ankle is just below that. And also because of the slight variation in shape my left calf looks noticeable bigger than my right. I didn't notice until people pointed it out to me. That's because even though it's slightly smaller than my right calf my left ankle is also slightly thinner. Also, my left calf muscle is a bit shorter so it seems to "peak' more than my right. But once it was pointed out I did notice that my left looks noticeable bigger even though it's smaller.
Once you see the pic all will become obvious.
I don't know how long it took. It's not like I measure them everyday and said, OK -- that's it! All calf goals have been reached. I just trained them and didn't keep track. I'd say that by 1 1/2 - 2 years when my 7 year old niece said that my legs look too "musclely" that I started to pay attention. And once I overheard someone say to his buddies while I was training at Sand Dune Park, "Damn, look at that guy's calves." I didn't think he was talking about me. I looked around and nobody else was there. When I got home I measured my calves and they were hovering around 17 inches. So that's a good 3 inches of growth. They're down to 161/2 but I wouldn't mind shaving off another 1/4 inch or so. They have a slight peak to them when viewed from the back and stand out a bit too much.
Sixteen and a half inches is not huge even by normal standards but when there's a full 8 inch difference between your ankle and calf it's very deceiving.
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mtwain
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This is just a test
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 test.JPG (105.66 KB, 640x480 - viewed 3053 times.)
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mtwain
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What a strange breed we are? Here I am in my forties standing on a chair taking a picture of a reflection of my calves.
I know it's no Arnold or Platz but if you compare it with how it use to be it's a big difference. My left calf is the one closest to the back of the chair. In other words, as you look at your screen it's on YOUR left.
Notice how skinny my ankles are. There's a full 8 inch difference between my ankles and my calves. Also, even though my left calf looks bigger, especially from the back, it's actually at bit smaller. The illusion comes from the fact that my left ankle is a bit skinnier and also the muscle is shorter so it sticks out more. My right calf seems to flow down lower.
I wish there was a way to post pictures when I was in my mid thirties. I have them. At just a tad under 6'2" (like Arnold) and sporting 13 7/8 calves it was quite pathetic. In this picture, which was taken last night, my right measure a bit over 16 1/2 inches and my left measured just under 16 1/2 inches. My right ankle measure 8 1/2 inches with my left just below that.
I should be embarrassed. A grown man standing on a chair in his bathroom in the middle of the night taking pictures of his legs with his very first digital camera.
It's my way of crying out for therapy.
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Vince Basile
Olympia Level
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Posts: 834
Everyone is an expert in the Irongame!
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By any standard the calves in those photos are huge. I remember being at Riverside Park in Kamloops way back in the mid-sixties and this guy who was a lifeguard had huge calves. He didn't lift weights. One day he let me measure them and they were about 16 1/2 inches. They were big calves. I guess the measurements of some guys are exaggerated or are taken pumped, on toes and with the foot raised and the leg at right angles. That might add at least 1/2 inch to the measurement or maybe even an inch.
I could usually pump my calves 3/4 of an inch. My best cold measurement was 18 1/4 measured standing like in the photo above, and I am around 5-10 and weighed about 225 then.
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mtwain
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By any standard the calves in those photos are huge. I remember being at Riverside Park in Kamloops way back in the mid-sixties and this guy who was a lifeguard had huge calves. He didn't lift weights. One day he let me measure them and they were about 16 1/2 inches. They were big calves. I guess the measurements of some guys are exaggerated or are taken pumped, on toes and with the foot raised and the leg at right angles. That might add at least 1/2 inch to the measurement or maybe even an inch.
I could usually pump my calves 3/4 of an inch. My best cold measurement was 18 1/4 measured standing like in the photo above, and I am around 5-10 and weighed about 225 then.
Well, they are not pumped nor am I standing on my toes. I think that would be easier to tell because you can see the contraction. I did notice that I look at little bow legged. The chair is kind of unstable because it's one of those that lack support on the back seat portion. I think it is done for looks but the seat portion is not fully supported. Anyway, it's the only chair I have that I can move around easily and had some difficulty balancing myself why taking a picture of my legs.
"Taking a picture of my legs." That sounds so funny. Maybe I'll take a "pumped" shot. But I don't know if it'll make much of a diff in a still shot.
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Nick Benikos
East Coast Level
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Posts: 10
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Very impressive. Great Work!
How frequently do you perform the set that you prescribed?
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Dave S.
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Now that,thats what i call posing.
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Thats a superb pair of calves you have built,and when it comes to measurements,yours are similar to mine,i also have small ankles and wrists.How tall are you.?
I remember reading an old Boyer Coe article about stretching the calves,and i used to spend hours at the bottom of the stairs,in the fully stretched position,just slightly bouncing up and down.
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mtwain
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Mtwain,
How often did you train calves during your "growth" period, and did you always do the forced reps and burns protocol?
I am a little confused with your first sentence:
"Actually, to this day I can't do one strict rep with just my meager bodyweight of 195-200lbs so dumbells have never been necessary."
Are you saying that with those monsters you can't do a one legged calf raise with you bodyweight? I must be confused here or the sentence is off. I would think after 3 inches of growth your strength would be through the roof compared to when they were under 14 inches.
Actually, that calf on the right in the picture looks like you stole it from Arnold.
I mean that I can't lock out fully, i.e., the full contracted position where you feel squeeze. I'm talking maybe the last quarter or even eighth of an inch. I certainly got stronger because I always kept track of reps and always strived for progression. When I first started I could only do about 5 strict reps without help. This surprised me because I would use the stack of the standing calf machine. But for some reason I could never get that full contraction when you are up on your toes like a ballerina. I had to help myself.
As I mentioned in a previous post I'm a bit under 6'2" and weigh 195-200lbs. I compete (Jiu-Jitsu) at 187.
I would train them twice a week. One set for each leg sometimes two (maybe twenty percent of the time). I would do toes slightly out one day and toes slightly in the other. Remember, the only reason I started training this way was because I decided to just give up on calves because if I couldn't make any improvement and after 20 years it was never going to happen. I did the one legged raise because Jones' said it was the perfect movement for calves and there was nothing he could do to improve upon it. Hence, he developed no calf machines. Also, I could do it at home at my convenience and not take away from valuable gym time.
Having work on machines my whole life I was surprised at the difference bodyweight raises were. It did seem perfect. When I would go to the gym and do one leg raises on the standing calf it just wasn't the same. I don't know why. Anyway, I started to take it more seriously when I noticed a difference. I don't know how long it took because I really didn't pay much attention. I was just doing it for tone and conditioning and the feeling that even if a muscle doesn't respond you still should exercise it. I just remember once putting on my shoes and noticing a vein I never saw before. Im like, "What's the dealio-oh?" I then rummaged through my place to find a measuring tape and found that they grew almost a 1/4 inch.
If I get a chance I try to post some more things I did as I progressed. It's been a while since I've "bombed" them, at least two-three years, so I've forgotten a lot. But because of this thread some of the stuff are starting to come back. I think this might be helpful because nobody can say I had good genes for calves (13 7/8 inches after 20 years of training), or steroids (look at all the pros with bad calves) or implants (they're too bulgy and uneven) or synthol (ouch! plus you can see veins and it doesn't look like a balloon.)
Again, measurement wise they're really not that big. It's an illusion because of my skinny long ankles. A friend of mine use to say my calves were bigger than his but his measure 18 1/2 inches. Looked at alone they seem big but when you compare with someone else then it becomes obvious that though they appear more developed, size wise they're not that big.
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Jeff_Preston
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I feel sick...
I knew that was coming!
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mtwain
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Because so many factors are considered it's hard to tell if a certain variation, style or technique makes much of difference or not. One thing I started doing simply because I gave up on any hope of making progress (I figured, like Sisyphus, since I spent so much effort accomplishing nothing I decided that I'll devote a minimal amount of effort to accomplish the same thing -- namely nothing) was to start doing calves bare foot. After all, why bother "suiting up" with shoes for something that now became a low priority. This gave me a noticeable difference in both the feel and application. One thing was that by kind of curling my toes it gave me more of a feeling of spreading out my calves outward instead of just the typical up and down contraction. This really made a difference doing burns. I remember Arnold once said that when standing on stage with his back to the audience he would try to grip the floor with his toes and spread his calves apart. Try to just stand on a level surface with both feet on the ground and then try to put most of the weight on one foot and grip the floor. Try to raise yourself but don't go into a full calf raise. Just raise yourself so that your heel is barely off the floor. Grip the floor with your toes and kind of play with the tension on your calves. Spread your toes as far apart as possible and really grip the floor and spread your calf apart. Hopefully you'll feel that sweet spot.
This really helped when doing the burns. Don't just mindlessly bounce up and down but try to grip the book, block, stair-step or whatever your standing on with your toes and spread your calves apart and keep the tension on as it burns.
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Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 14 
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Ranks right up there with "these weights feel light today. I think they calibrated them."
